When Michael De Luca and Pamela Abdy took over as co-heads of Warner Bros.’ movie studio in early June 2021, one of the first decisions they made was to move forward with a sequel to Joker, the Oscar-winning, $1 billion hit that helped redefine the heights a comic book movie could reach.
Virtually all the key deals were already in place by their predecessor, Toby Emmerich, with A-list director Todd Phillips and star Joaquin Phoenix getting $20 million paydays, and the film landing a rich net budget of $190 million (the first film cost $55 million). Phillips is a huge asset for Warner, his home studio.
One small outstanding matter was Lady Gaga’s perk package. Within weeks, the papers were signed — her pay was $12 million — and she officially joined Joker: Folie à Deux.
Abdy and De Luca could have said no to making the film, but they would have the laughing stocks of Hollywood, considering the astonishing success of Joker and its record-shattering ride at the global box office, where it ranked as the top-grossing R-rated film of all time until Deadpool & Wolverine came along. But over the Oct. 4-6 weekend, everyone at Warners, including the executive duo, were left reeling as Folie à Deux collapsed in its box office debut with a $37.8 million domestic opening after becoming the first comic book movie in history to receive a D CinemaScore. Phillips, according to one source, spent the weekend in seclusion on a ranch property he owns.
Domestically, Folie à Deux opened well behind DC’s 2023 The Flash ($55 million) and Marvel Studios’ The Marvels’ ($46.1 million), both of which were major bombs. It also came in behind Sony’s relatively inexpensive Morbius ($39 million).
“It is complete audience rejection,” says one source close to the film.
Overseas, Folie à Deux came in at an estimated $81 million, in line with expectations but still notably behind the first film.
While it is not the lowest North American opening for a pic based on a DC character, Joker: Folie à Deux is major stumble. Yet numerous sources tell THR that there’s no studio head in Hollywood — save perhaps for Sony Pictures’ Tom Rothman — who would have turned down making a sequel to a film that was both a commercial and critical hit. To boot, Abdy and De Luca were under orders by Warner Bros. Discovery chief David Zaslav to fill a bare cupboard after the studio’s Project Popcorn disaster, which alienated talent by sending its entire 2021 slate day-and-date to streaming service Max. Zaslav also is keen to exploit the company’s IP more fully.
“It is a collective failure, but it was right to make this movie,” says one top veteran producer and financier, who points out that Phillips is a brilliant director who has made Warners billions in between the first Joker and The Hangover movies.
Still, observers wonder how De Luca and Abdy could have presided over a film that veered so far off course from what audiences wanted or expected.
One answer, perhaps: Phillips was given an extraordinary level of autonomy and final cut. There was no test screening, though insiders say this was a mutual decision between the filmmaker and Warners in order to preserve spoilers. That decision does stretch credulity, as the film does not have a particularly spoiler-heavy plot, and even spoilerific movies like Marvel Studios’ Avengers: Engdame had multiple test screenings.
On the first Joker, former DC Films president Walter Hamada worked on the project and received an executive producer credit. This time around, no DC executives were involved, as when the project was greenlit, DC was in a near-state of chaos. It would still be months before James Gunn and Peter Safran were hired to run the division and to form DC Studios.
Since Phillips’ main forte was comedy, Emmerich capped the budget on the first movie at $55 million, and brought on co-financiers to mitigate the risk, including Bron and Village Roadshow. Sources tell THR that Alcon, backed by FedEx titan Fred Smith, ultimately put up Village Roadshow’s portion and was eager to have a stake in Folie à Deux. The Zaslav regime, however, didn’t want to see so much money going out the door and only has one co-financier on the sequel, its slate financing partner, Domain.
On Sunday, Warners didn’t attempt to sugarcoat the movie’s performance or suggest it has a chance of catching on after being rejected by fanboys — unless people want to go see it because of the “hate” factor. They also didn’t point fingers internally, such as at marketing, which can often happen after a movie bombs.
“It’s a huge disaster, but what is the fallout? Who gets the blame?” asks one source.
But both Gunn and Phillips have emphasized in recent days that they did not work together on the project, with Gunn answering a question from a fan on social media asking why the DC Studios logo did not appear in front of the movie, with the filmmaker-exec writing, “Because it’s not a DC Studios film.” He went on to add, “All future films with DC characters will be DC Studios.” (There is a DC logo during the credits). Interestingly, and perhaps as courtesy, Gunn saw the movie at the same time as De Luca and Abdy, according to a source.
Phillips himself has confirmed Gunn and Safran had nothing to do with the movie, saying at a recent screening that the attitude was, “Okay, Todd did his thing. Let Todd continue to do his thing.”
Gunn and Safran have a vested interest in distancing themselves from Joker and the bombs of the past few years and especially The Flash — a proper DC title — as they attempt to reset the brand, a top priority for Zaslav.
Indeed, they distanced themselves from Folie à Deux almost as soon as they took over as co-heads of the studio. During a presentation for press in January 2023, they outlined their expansive slate, but noted that Joker 2 would not be under their purview and would exist as an Elseworld’s title — a designation given to projects that fall outside of the shared universe of movies, TV shows and video games they are developing. They are working with The Batman filmmaker Matt Reeves on his sequel, as well as the TV spinoff The Penguin and other projects in development outside their mainline universe.
Regardless of whether Joker 2 is a proper DC title, it is the fifth bomb for a DC-character based film since hit movie The Batman bowed in March 2022, with recent misses including Black Adam, Shazam! Fury of the Gods, The Flash and Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom. (The more modestly budgeted Blue Beetle underperformed last year, but was not an outright bomb).
Gunn and Safran are hoping to right the ship with the Gunn-directed Superman, which arrives in July 2025.
Some have noted the film is a very expensive punchline, a repudiation of the very audiences who showed up for the first film. Ironically, the ending of the film features a man carving a smile on his face (out of focus and slightly off camera). According to one source, the ending of the first movie’s original script featured Phoenix’s Joker carving his face in front of a crowd of his supporters. But The Dark Knight filmmaker Christopher Nolan killed that idea, believing that only his Joker (Heath Ledger) should carve his face. But Nolan is no longer at the studio, and thus there was no resistance to the idea this time around.
Neither Phillips nor Phoenix was even sure about making a sequel and, for a time, contemplated putting on a Broadway show instead, before ultimately committing to the movie and bringing aboard Gaga in a role inspired by the comic book character Harley Quinn. The idea for the sequel came to Phoenix in a dream, and he and Phillips brought the idea to Emmerich, according to sources.
In the end, some are saying that Joker: Folie à Deux is a very expensive art film. But when asked who the intended audience was, one outside source sums it up this way: “For Joaquin.”
(Borys Kit contributed to this report.)