This is an audio transcript of the Life and Art from FT Weekend podcast episode: ‘My Old Ass director Megan Park on advice to our younger selves’
Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome to Life and Art from FT Weekend. I’m Lilah Raptopoulos. The new film My Old Ass is a coming-of-age story. Its lead character, Elliott, played by Maisy Stella, is 18 years old and home for that last summer before college. She’s ready to leave, but she clearly still has a lot of growing to do and a lot to learn about her relationship with her family, about her sexuality, and more. The twist in the story is that the person who helps Elliott understand herself better is her older self, or in other words, her old ass. On a mushroom trip in the woods with her friends, younger Elliott conjures the 39-year-old, more jaded version of herself up, played by Aubrey Plaza, and then that version of her continues to advise her throughout the film.
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The film was produced by Margot Robbie’s production company, LuckyChap, which also produced Barbie. It focuses on work about women. And it was written and directed by Megan Park. Megan is a former actor. This is the second film she’s written and directed. The first was about young adulthood, too. It was called The Fallout, and today we’re thrilled to be talking to Megan from her home in Toronto. Megan, hi. Welcome to the show.
Megan Park
Hi. Thanks for having me from my Covid den, my isolated Covid back house.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yes, we learned you got Covid on the press tour, is that right?
Megan Park
Yeah. Unfortunately. It’s my first time, actually. My first time having it.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Welcome to the club. (Laughter)
Megan Park
Thank you.
Lilah Raptopoulos
It’s great to have you.
Megan Park
Thank you.
Lilah Raptopoulos
I wanted to start with a kind of weird question, because for so many teens that post-high school summer is this funny, liminal space. I wanted to ask you, like, where you were when you were 18. What was that summer like for you?
Megan Park
You know, it’s funny. I don’t have, like, a distinct memory of that summer other than the feeling of I wasn’t ready to move on. I remember going on a really long kayak ride. I grew up on a river, and we would . . . you can either go for a short kayak ride up the river, or a long one down and have someone pick you up at the spot, you know, a few hours on the way. And my mom and I were doing it and going down the river, and I remember just being so relieved because I had decided to not go to university right after high school and take one year to pursue acting.
All my friends were like, gearing up to move into their dorm rooms and doing that whole thing, and I was just sort of having this long, leisurely kayak ride with my mom. And I remember trying to soak it up and feeling like, oh my gosh, I would so not be ready to be leaving home yet, even though I didn’t know that by the end of that year, I think like, in LA and like, on a TV show. But in that moment, in that kind of end-of-summer feeling, I was feeling really anxious about the idea, truthfully, of leaving home, which is very different than how Elliott is feeling.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah. And then can I ask, when did you . . . So you started acting that following year. What was that like?
Megan Park
I had started acting, you know, professionally when I was around 16 because I live just outside of Toronto and there’s a lot of, you know, big productions that film there, both Canadian and American. But my parents were very adamant, and at the time I was so angry about it, but they didn’t want me to miss a lot of school. So, like, they would let me audition for things that would only take me away for a few days. But all of my friends were like serious regulars under Grassi, and we’re doing all these big jobs, and I really wanted to do that. And they kept saying, if you want to do that, you can do that once you graduate school. You can do that once you turn 18. But we really want you to have a normal high school experience. And I was really pissed. And now I’m so grateful for them because I really had such a normal high school experience, and there’s just no price tag on having a normal childhood and young adulthood.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Right. So you did have success during that gap year, and then you went on to be on shows like The Secret Life of the American Teenager. You were in movies. I’m sure that time was very formative to you, but I’ve also seen interviews where you say that in the movies that you’re doing now, you think of them as kind of a way to redo those experiences, as a way to, like, kind of change what the set was like for the teenagers that are in your films now. Can you talk about that a little?
Megan Park
I mean, I think things have changed a lot. I mean, I’m, you know, 38 and this was, you know, me at 20, 21. So there’s been a lot of time. But certainly when I was younger, always like some older dude was the director and it was like a hierarchy. Everyone had to please the director. You could tell the director generally loved that vibe and wanted that environment, and it was like them trying to tell these stories about young people and never asking us our opinion on anything. And I mean, I remember like, there was writers and powerful people coming up to me as a young person and the threat, a literal threat, I was told once, was the power of the pen. You know, that was like the threat of, like, we can make you or break you sort of thing. And it just . . . it was, I don’t know, looking back, it was like pretty messed up. And, I was lucky to come out pretty unscathed compared to most people because I was a little bit older.
But I really don’t think there’s a need for that. It creates the least creative environment ever. And a director is a curator, I think, like, you know what you know and know what you don’t know, and you hire people who do what you don’t know. And so I really want to make sure that my sets never feel like a hierarchy. In fact, I’m doing a show next, and I have this whole theory that I don’t think that creators and writers of shows should also be the sole showrunners because I think it’s just too much power. I don’t know. It’s just a weird thing that I think should change within the industry.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah. I would love to hear a little more about how you collaborated in this film with your team. But first I wanted to ask, you know, the movie is like a comedy at its core. It’ll make you cry — it made me cry — but it’s funny. And it’s set in a small town in Canada. Or was it the woods? It was on a lake. It was like a rural cranberry farm?
Megan Park
Yeah, it’s an area north of Toronto called Muskoka Lakes, where there’s like a bunch of lakes. There are actually some cranberry farms that is a thing up in that area, and it’s really close to where I grew up, which is called Kawartha Lakes.
Lilah Raptopoulos
It’s gorgeous. Idyllic living. And basically Elliott’s life seems good, you know, she’s like queer and everyone’s cool with that. She’s hooking up with this cute girl that she’s had a crush on. She’s not actually awkward at all. She has this, like, cool boat that she rips around the lake in. That really struck me because, in so many teenage movies, the thing that makes the protagonists relatable is that they’re kind of struggling. Like, they feel awkward or they’re uncomfortable in their skin, or they have bad braces or whatever. And, yeah, I’m curious why you sort of chose to have her starting her journey in this movie from like, a pretty comfortable, nice place.
Megan Park
Well, I was kind of sick of seeing, like, the teenage vibe of, like, this angsty girl who, like, hates her parents and, like, I don’t know, I’m like, is moody and insecure. And sure, like, there’s parts of that in all of us and little tinges of that in Elliott. But I really wanted to see a young female lead in a movie who was happy and grounded and secure about her identity and loves her family. Maybe she takes them for granted, but like, at her core, loves them and wants to connect with them, is bright and sunny and optimistic. And that’s one of the things that I kind of feel like a lot of people get wrong about this generation. And I was so wildly taken hanging out with the young people in this movie. They are so optimistic. And despite how shitty, like, some things in their life, you know, the world and stuff that they’re looking forward into, these kids don’t, like, talk shit, which was amazing. Like, they really don’t! Like, they all speak so kindly about each other and love each other and are open and accepting. And I wanted to see that reflected on screen, you know, about this like, strong, bright young woman, full of joie de vive and positivity, but who’s still very cool. Like, that is what’s cool. It’s not cool to be a shit talker, to be a bully. Which I think was like more of the trope of the cool girl, like, you know, Mean Girls when I was younger, right?
Lilah Raptopoulos
It’s funny, I felt like, well, this isn’t what movies are like. When I was watching it, I thought, wow, this is not really what I’m used to seeing. I don’t know, it was refreshing. And on the other hand, the older Elliott is more unsettled. And I wonder, you know, if you were trying to poke holes in this idea that, you know, life is linear and we’re awkward as kids, and then you become an adult and you get it and you haven’t figured out or . . . What was your thinking about?
Megan Park
It feels a little true. Like both from like, what could we be looking at, you know, planet mirror, and the world is being like, 20 years from now realistically. But yeah, I liked the idea that there was sort of a hardness to the older version. And she’s not even that much older, you know, she’s 39, but her younger self is sort of this, like, which I don’t think is that uncommon, that your younger self is sort of like the more optimistic and blissful, you know, right, sort of version of yourself. And a lot of it really came together tonally with these two actors.
Like Maisy really does have that essence to her, which was one of the reasons why I loved her so much for this character. So many of those conversations I pulled real moments from that her and I had, where she would be asking me, you know, like, you know, oh my God! Like, so like, what is middle-aged like? What is love like? I’m never gonna fix things. I actually feel like I’m one of those people who’s never gonna fall in love. Like, all those moments were real conversations we had, which was so funny. It made me feel so old.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Interesting. And you’re like, I’m not middle-aged. Not middle-aged.
Megan Park
I was like, wait, I’m not. I’m like 35 or whatever. And she’s like, oh, but that’s pretty close to middle age. I was like, oh shit. Wow. OK. And I think, you know, when you cast someone like Aubrey, what her energy brings to the table, it was really fun to play with that. But Aubrey is a very soft, sentimental, nurturing person, so it was fun to pull that side of her. And she has sisters who are a lot younger than her. Maisy has a sister who’s older than her, so there was like a natural vibe that happened that we kind of played around with. But at their core they have like a very similar sense of humour and very similar coolness to them, I think, that trumped any sort of like need for them to look like in the casting process.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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Lilah Raptopoulos
You know, Megan, one of the things that I found really moving in the movie is that it isn’t sort of young Elliott who gets the biggest lesson, like, she sort of can’t help being who she is. But there’s this big lesson that older Elliott learns from her younger self to kind of maybe be less guarded. Like, it feels sort of like if we knew what happened, what would happen in the future, maybe we wouldn’t change our decisions in the present. But if we could see what had really happened in the past, like maybe it’ll change the way we process the past or the story we tell ourselves about our life. And I’m wondering if you were thinking about that, how you were thinking about that?
Megan Park
You know, I think writing for me is really therapeutic, and I do not write pitches or outlines or anything. I never have. I just think about sort of like the feeling that I’m trying to tap into, which was that nostalgic ache and sort of that sadness about the passing of time. But I really feel like now, in retrospect, so much of this movie was actually born . . . I just had my daughter, my first child, and I was home in Canada. And I feel like when you have a kid, time really does speed up.
I remember when I was pregnant, everybody was like, oh my gosh, you blink and they’re gonna be 10. And I’m like, OK, I got it. Like, everybody said that. But then I really was feeling that so viscerally. And so even though this movie’s so much about, you know, an 18-year-old meeting her 39-year-old self, I feel like it was the feeling of new motherhood for me, in a weird way, that really got me in the feels to want to talk about some of these things. And I think the most personal scene in the movie for me, just for me as Megan, was like, definitely the mom and daughter, Elliott and her mom sitting on the porch talking in the scene about rocking her daughter to sleep.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Can you explain that scene just for listeners, if they haven’t?
Megan Park
Yeah. There’s a moment where Elliott and her mom are talking, and it’s like a few days before she leaves and her mom is kind of talking to her about, you know, I’m really happy for you that you’re moving on with your life. And this is what all parents want to see. And there’s such a beauty and a joy in seeing your kids grow and go off and be free and confident in the world. But there’s also, like this bittersweet sadness that a huge part of, not your life, but just sort of our time as it is, is over. And, I don’t know, maybe having kids makes you more aware of like the infinite amount of time you have.
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Lilah Raptopoulos
I was thinking about these questions that we ask ourselves, and we seem to be asking them a lot in culture like, you know, advice that we would give our younger selves. There’s like, all these think pieces, you know what I wouldn’t tell my younger self? And there are so many movies where people become sort of older or younger versions of themselves, like 13 Going on 30 and Big. And then there’s movies where, like, people time travel into their own family history, like Back to the Future, or they encounter themselves like Interstellar. And I feel like a lot of people are sort of obsessed with these questions and these perspective shifts and like, we’re searching for something. I’m wondering what you think that is.
Megan Park
I think it’s just the universal . . . All these themes in this movie are so universal. Time passing, family dynamics. You know, your disappearing youth, grief, motherhood, becoming a parent. That’s why it’s been kind of funny because, like, the title of the movie, it’s like, ooh, My Old Ass, you see Aubrey and you see, you know, the kind of this bright poster and you think it’s gonna be like this kind of, I don’t know, raunchy coming-of-age comedy. And the movie is quite heartfelt and quite universal. And it’s been really interesting to watch.
Like, I’ve said this before, but the amount of old dudes, like over 65, they come up to us and are like, this is my favourite scene. And they’re just like, sobbing. It’s so interesting and amazing but I never expected that. I don’t know. I think I’m discovering myself as a filmmaker, and I remember really, one of my favourite moments in my career and life so far is after Sundance, you know, in Sundance, it was really like, it’s like putting your baby out into the world. After that premiere, you know, you don’t know if a movie’s gonna work and it’s in this massive theatre. And when I got a standing ovation, it was so surreal. And I got in the car afterwards with the producers and one of our producers, Tom Ackerley, he was, he’s not like an emotional guy, but he kind of was like had tears in his eyes. And he said to me, he was like, you know, Megan, as a filmmaker, you have this ability to really get inside people’s hearts.
And I was so moved by the compliment. But I was also . . . it struck this like lightning bolt inside of me, and so I was like, oh yes, oh yes, that’s what I want to do as a filmmaker. And it sounds cheesy because of course, you know, everybody wants to get an emotional reaction, but they’re saying about the phrasing of like getting inside people’s hearts that rang true to me of like that is . . . that became my north star immediately in that moment because I was like, yes, those are the movies that have stuck with me and that I love and that I go back to, and those are the movies that I want to make at the core.
Lilah Raptopoulos
What does that mean to you? Get inside people’s hearts or, yeah. What is that feeling you’re trying to . . . well, what does it mean?
Megan Park
I think it’s like about these, like, universal themes, but, like, masked behind something maybe more palatable and grounded, like, you know, with The Fallout, I was like, how do I tackle this awful subject matter that is not palatable? Like, I don’t . . . It’s so dark. Yeah, I was like, I can’t watch a movie about school shooting. That shit is like so heavy. But I tried to get into it in a way that was like as least triggering as possible, but surprise people with sort of like, the nuance of, like, the journey that it wasn’t just like, I don’t know, black and white.
So same thing with this movie. It was like I wanted this to feel like a fun coming-of-age story about, you know, growing up, but then surprise people with sort of like the heartfelt truth of like, the message. And there’s also like, this is a little thing but in both my movies there’s no, like, villain. I mean, obviously, there is a villain you never meet or see in The Fallout, but all these characters are like pretty endearing people, and they’re messy and they’re nuanced, but they’re good people. And I love movies like that. I was always so bored watching movies like The Bad Guys. Through the line, I’m like, I don’t care. Like, you know, this is like a story vehicle, like, move the plot along, but who cares? I just want to watch, like, the good people figure out life. So that’s really important to me too.
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Lilah Raptopoulos
Megan, as my last question, I’m curious what draws you to stories about teenagers and young adults? You know, you’ve talked about The Fallout, your last movie, it was about kids in the aftermath of a school shooting, which is obviously pointing to a very specific problem in American society. But I’m wondering if you think there’s something like more broadly that we aren’t talking about when it comes to young people or that we’re not reflecting when it comes to young people?
Megan Park
I didn’t, like, intentionally set out for both my movies to be centred around Gen Z, weirdly. I mean, obviously, though, if you’re gonna talk about school shootings in America and Gen Z, those all go hand in hand. But I also think there is a part of me that when I was a young actor and telling stories about young people, nine times out of 10, the stories didn’t necessarily feel authentic to my actual experience as a young person in that moment. So there is a part of me that I think is trying to listen if I’m gonna tell a story about young people, I want to give them the quality they deserve and like, the respect that they should get in their stories.
And I think there was a generation, a long time ago, of filmmakers who were really doing that about stories for young people. And I think all of a sudden they’re in the last 10 years and this shift of like, how do you . . . it’s so hard to tack in the Gen Z, how do you . . . like, how do you get them? And the second you’re trying to write a young person or trying to get them, you’ve already lost it. You’ve already messed up. I think. because when I started writing Elliott, I wasn’t like, OK, she’s 18, how do I write an 18-year-old? I was like, this is a human being, and I’m writing a human being. Later, I’ll figure out if, like, she’s gonna say the word suss or not. And that’s like, (inaudible) that doesn’t matter. And I’m not trying to put slang in for the purpose of getting young people to watch the movie. Like, there were certain elements, like the Bieber thing, right. I went to Maisy, I was like, who was that performer of your childhood? Like, there’s moments. Yeah, you have to, like, bring that into it. And that is sort of like a pop culture reference. But in general, as I’m creating Elliott in my head, I was in no way thinking first and foremost about how it was a 17-year-old girl.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. And when you are talking about the Bieber thing, you’re talking about when Maisy’s character Elliott is like, having another mushroom trip and she’s decided that she wants to be Justin Bieber and serenade the fans.
Megan Park
Yeah. And I went to her and I was like, who is . . . Yeah. What was that moment? Or who was that first concert for you and your generation that was really formative? And she was like, oh, it was the “One Less Lonely Girl”, Justin Bieber, and every girl in the audience wanted to be chosen as the one less lonely girl, and he would bring this girl up on stage and give them roses. And I was like, what? That’s insane. And she showed me the “Never Say Never” tour doc. And then I was like, oh, wait a second, you have to be (overlapping speech and laughter) Bieber. But yeah, it’s about like, you know, bringing in opinions and opening it up when it’s important, but not like the whole time being so caught up and like, OK, this is a Gen Z-er. And like, how would they say it? It’s like . . . it’s a, it’s a human being, man. You know?
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Try . . . You gotta try a little less hard maybe.
Megan Park
100 per cent.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Yeah. Also, her Justin Bieber was perfect.
Megan Park
She killed that. She really embodied that. She really took over. It was in her all along. We kept joking. She was a changed person for sure.
Lilah Raptopoulos
Well, this was such a pleasure. Thank you so much for being on the show. And, please feel better.
Megan Park
Thank you.
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Lilah Raptopoulos
That’s the show. Thank you for listening to Life and Art from FT Weekend. My Old Ass is in theatres in the US and the UK now, and we put some relevant links in the show notes. Also in the show notes are places to find me on email and on Instagram @lilahrap where I love chatting with you about culture.
I’m Lilah Raptopoulos and here’s our exceptional team. Katya Kumkova is our senior producer. Lulu Smyth is our producer. Our sound engineers are Breen Turner and Sam Giovinco, with original music by Metaphor Music. Topher Forhecz is our executive producer and our global head of audio is Cheryl Brumley. Have an excellent week and we’ll find each other again on Friday.