Post Office inquiry – live: CEO hints many feel Paula Vennells not held to account

Chief executive Nick Read has been confronted with statistics that show that 263 subpostmasters have died since being wrongly accused of stealing money.

Of these 263 people, 251 died before receiving compensation, according to freedom of information data obtained by The Times.

Mr Read said it was a “terrible statistic”. When told that 251 of these people had never received an apology before their death, Mr Read said it was a “terrible situation”.

He was asked by a lawyer representing subpostmasters and their families: “Has the Post Office made any study as to why the process is so slow? And as to whether the lawyers are responsible for the delay?”

Mr Read replied: “We are acutely conscious… We spend a lot of time trying to work out, how do we improve and speed up the process. That is a constant point of conversation between myself and the minister and others.”

Chief executive Nick Read has said that people would “take confidence” from the fact that he was investigated for misconduct.

He told the Horizon IT inquiry that the investigation into his conduct showed that “no one is above the law in the Post Office.” He explained: “Those whistleblowing allegations that were made against me were followed through with a fairly comprehensive investigation.

“None of the allegations, I may hasten to add, were upheld. But colleagues would have taken confidence that it was possible to investigate the chief executive and the chairman, irrespective of what else was going on in the organisation and that those went through to their natural conclusions.”

Chief executive Nick Read has revealed the top four questions that are asked of him when he visits Post Offices today.

He told the inquiry the top questions from postmasters were:

What are we doing for remuneration? [postmasters’ pay]

What are we doing by way of innovation, what other products can we sell?

What is happening to the brand as a consequence of the scandal?

What is happening to my long-term investment in a Post Office?

Postmasters need to be recognised for the important role that they play within their communities, Nick Read has said.

The inquiry is now considering the future of the Post Office and the nature of its relationship with the government.

Mr Read told the inquiry: “When you look at the role that postmasters play in communities up and down the country, when you look at the level of trust between communities and postmasters, it is quite extraordinary.”

He added that “postmasters should be recognised for that contribution, where they currently aren’t.”

Mr Read added that the Post Office have been asking the government for a clearer strategy for their future. “There is a desire to have a long-term strategy for the Post Office from which everything else will flow,” he said.

The inquiry has returned after the lunch breach and Mr Read is being asked about the government’s priorities for the Post Office in 2023/ 24.

The inquiry has been shown a letter from minister Kevin Hollinrake to chairman Henry Staunton on 29th June 2023, titled strategic priorities for 23/24.

In the list of priorities set out by the government, the level of pay for postmasters is not included as a concern.

Mr Read was asked why this is, given that recent surveys of postmasters show their number one concern is the level of their pay.

He told the inquiry: “I assume they [the government] take it as given as that being the top priority of the job.”

Mr Hollinrake’s letter lists the government’s first priority as “effective financial management and performance, including management of legal costs, to ensure medium term viability”.

He goes on to list the requirement to “maintain stringent cost control”.

When pushed on whether this is in conflict with any desire to increase remuneration of subposters, Mr Read said: “Potentially”.

The inquiry had previously heard that Mr Read had received over £750,000 a year for his CEO role and had been pushing to increase this to over £1.1m.

Chief executive Nick Read has told the inquiry that there is a feeling within the Post Office that former leaders “appear not to have been held to account”.

In apparent reference to former Post Office CEO Paula Vennells, he told the inquiry: “I think one of the themes that has emerged amongst colleagues still working within the organisation is that many of the leaders of the organisation – historically – who have appeared before this inquiry, appear not to have been held to account.

“If indeed they were aware of and understood other issues associated with Horizon in the past, I think there was very definitely a view amongst the bigger community that people were going about doing their job and we needed to be sensitive to the fact that people were going about doing their job to the best of their ability and with what they knew.”

Former business minister Kevin Hollinrake told Post Office CEO Nick Read that he wanted former chairman Henry Staunton to “be discredited”, according to a note of a meeting shown to the Horizon IT inquiry.

A note of a meeting between Mr Hollinrake and Mr Read dated 29th February 2024 was shown to the inquiry.

Mr Hollinrake, who was at the time a minister in the Tory government, was recorded as saying about Mr Staunton: “I think the select committee were weak with him, apart from Anthony Higginbottom. Sorry it was so messy. Keen to support in anyway we can, to make sure we get passed this. Hope he’s discredited. Anything else you think we need to do to make it easier?”

Mr Read confirmed to the inquiry that this was referring to the former chairman Henry Staunton.

Mr Staunton and Mr Read have often been at odds with each other in their evidence both to the business select committee and to the Post Office inquiry.

Mr Staunton was sacked by Business secretary Kemi Badenoch in January 2024. He appeared before MPs on 27th Febuary 2024, in which he claimed he was the victim of a smear campaign.

He also claimed that a bullying inquiry was ongoing into Nick Read. Mr Read has now said that an inquiry into any misconduct has exonerated him.

Mr Read is being quizzed about why Retail Engagement Director Tracy Marshall is a corporate witness for the Post Office, when she was previously implicated in problems with remote access.

An email emerged during the inquiry showing Ms Marshall had knowledge that postmasters’ accounts could be access remotely back in 2011, at the heart of the Horizon scandal.

Despite this Ms Marshall is a corporate witness on behalf of the Post Office to the inquiry.

Mr Read was asked whether he thought there was a conflict when “she is on one view implicated in the remote access issue, and yet she is a corporate witness for the Post Office.”

Mr Read explained: “ The issue emerged in the Summer. This was the last time the inquiry was sitting, and these emails emerged.

“We invited Tracy to step back from her day to day role. She was very clear that she was unaware of remote access being actioned. She understood it was possible but not aware it was actioned in any way.”

Mr Read continued: “A line manager suggested to her that she take a step back from postmaster facing activity, so that confidence could be retained.”

Ms Marshall is due to give evidence to the Post Office inquiry in coming weeks.

Nick Read has said he was frustrated that the Post Office couldn’t get to the bottom of where money paid by wrong subpostmasters to the company had gone.

Many wrong subpostmasters dipped into their own savings to make up shortfalls that showed up on their accounts due to dodgy Horizon data.

Mr Read spoke about how the Post Office had employed a number of forensic accountants to get to the bottom of where this money had gone.

He told the inquiry: “It seemed peculiar to me that we were unable to get a fix, even with caveats as to its level of accuracy, so that we could at least in part give people some confidence that we understood the size and scale of this issue or got to the bottom of it.”