Paula Vennells live: Ex-Post Office CEO back at Inquiry after ‘crocodile tears’

Ex-Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells is set to give evidence for a second day at the Horizon IT scandal inquiry after she was accused of crying “crocodile tears” and admitted evidence she gave to MPs was wrong.

More than 700 subpostmasters were wrongly prosecuted and handed criminal convictions between 1999 and 2015 as a result of Fujitsu’s faulty Horizon IT system – which made it appear as though money was missing at their branches.

Lead campaigner and former subpostmaster Alan Bates has said he has “no sympathy” for Paula Vennells after she broke down twice during her first day of evidence to the Horizon IT inquiry.

Mr Bates said he met “senior” Metropolitan Police staff on Wednesday morning to discuss possible prosecutions following the Post Office Horizon scandal.

He said: “They certainly are going to investigate, I’ve had that assurance and I think the group (of subpostmasters) needs that as an assurance and it’s something that we’ve never been certain of until today.”

Lee Castleton has said Paula Vennells will “never” shed as many tears as he has. Mr Castleton, from Bridlington, East Yorkshire, was found to have a £25,000 shortfall at his branch in 2004. He was made bankrupt after he lost his legal battle with the Post Office.

Speaking about Ms Vennells’ evidence, he said: “She’s got a huge opportunity to get what she sees as the truth out there.

“I think it’s a huge stage for her, I think the paperwork is fantastic, to see what was being written at the time it’s really, really important for us to see that. And what she remembers really is kind of a background for me, the actual verbal evidence is not really that important.”

Asked about Ms Vennells breaking down in tears, he added: “She’ll never shed as many as I have, I’m afraid, or my family, or the rest of the victims or the wider group.

“Not that I have no empathy for that because I do, I understand completely.

“I’d imagine a lot of it’s nerves too and doing her best. I think she’s got a need or want to do the right thing.”

The distinguished business career of the former Post Office chief executive Paula Vennells crumbled following the Horizon scandal.

She has faced heavy criticism over her handling of the scandal, finally stepping down from her role as chief executive in February 2019. Questions have been raised over the timing of her departure – with legal cases brought by subpostmasters such as lead campaigner Alan Bates being tried around the same time.

In the face of mounting pressure over the Horizon scandal, and a petition which attracted more than 1.2 million signatures, Ms Vennells handed back her CBE earlier this year.

She has since also quit boardroom roles at retailers Morrisons and Dunelm as subpostmasters began having their convictions overturned. Ms Vennells, likewise, stepped down from her role as chairwoman of the Imperial College Healthcare NHS Trust in 2021, having taking on the job in April 2019 soon after leaving the Post Office.

Paula Vennells has said it was “completely unfair” of the Post Office to maintain that there were no systemic errors in Horizon.

Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked if a “frequent refrain” of the Post Office in 2014 was that there were no systemic errors in Horizon.

Ms Vennells replied: “It was, and it was wrong … it was completely unfair to use in the business.”

Counsel to the inquiry Jason Beer KC asked Paula Vennells why a number of “false statements” or “folklore” about Horizon were circulating within the Post Office.

Mr Beer put to her that the Post Office falsely believed that every time it went to court it won, that there were no faults in Horizon and that there was no remote access for Fujitsu. Ms Vennells responded: “At the time they were not considered to be false statements. The source of those statements, I can’t recall clearly, but on something like this the only possible source of this statement would have been through the Post Office legal team.

“So the answer for all of them would be to look for where the expertise sat within the organisation as to the genesis of what we now know are false statements.”

Mr Beer asked if it is a “serious issue” if “folklore develops” which has “no foundation in fact”.

Ms Vennells said: “I agree.”

Mr Beer also asked if it says something about the culture of the Post Office if “such folklore developed or was perpetuated and nobody checked the real facts?”

Ms Vennells replied: “That’s a difficult question to answer because in hindsight it is completely valid. At the time, certainly where I was concerned, I believed that I was getting information from the people who were employed to give me the best advice because of their expertise. I didn’t believe that any of those things were folklore at all.”

Six more former Post Office workers have had their convictions for offences including theft and fraud quashed amid the Horizon IT scandal, lawyers have said.

One of the six, Sushma Blaggan, attended the nearby inquiry shortly after her theft conviction from 2004 was quashed to see former Post Office boss Paula Vennells give evidence.

Assad Alli, Marion Chapman, Thomas Mulhall, Kimberly Connors and Seema Rahman also had their convictions overturned on Wednesday at a Southwark Crown Court hearing which took place at the Royal Courts of Justice in central London.

Paula Vennells has been confronted with a damning text from the former chief executive of the Royal Mail suggesting she knew about flaws in the Horizon IT system used by the Post Office.

“I think you knew,” the ex-Post Office boss was told by Canadian-born Moya Greene, who was in charge of the Royal Mail for eight years.

Ms Vennells replied, telling Ms Greene: “No Moya, that isn’t the case.”

But, in an exchange of messages shown to the official Post Office Horizon IT inquiry, Ms Greene told Ms Vennells she could no longer support her “after what I have learned”.